Re: [閒聊] 阻尼係數

看板Audiophile (電腦喇叭 音響系統)作者 (靜電)時間4年前 (2020/07/27 09:49), 編輯推噓7(7019)
留言26則, 6人參與, 4年前最新討論串4/5 (看更多)
阻尼因素的高低跟聽感關聯性沒有這麼絕對 真空管機沒有高的 但是管機低頻控制就都很差嗎 相信市場上反應並非這樣 以下轉貼 Sterophile 訪問Tim de Paravicini 的片段(Jun 5, 1984) 談他的EAR 509 這機器的低頻控制力速度感都十分厲害 但DF只有20 請看看他如何解釋 Stereophile: We're looking at a damping factor of only 20, right? De Paravicini: Yes, well, it may only appear to have a damping factor of 20 but that needs to be clarified. People have latched on to the idea that damping factor is the only important criterion for tight bass. Now a conventional dynamic speaker is essentially an electric motor in series with an 8 ohm resistor inside that motor—if you measure the voice-coil terminal it measures 8 ohms DC [(footnote 1)]. Now if you put a screwdriver across those two terminals, you have put an infinite damping factor on that loudspeaker, right? Stereophile: Right. De Paravicini: But that electric motor has still got 8 ohms in series with it to damp its motion. It hasn't really got a short circuit. Now, if instead of the screwdriver I put an 8 ohm resistor across those terminals, that electric motor now sees 16 ohms in a series, so in fact it's got half the damping that it had before, which is expressed as a DF of 2. If we lower that resistor from 8 ohms to 1, for example, we now have a damping factor of 8. That electric motor is now seeing 9 ohms, which is only 10% larger than 8 ohms. We're closing the gap towards that perfect 8 ohm resistor, so if we go downwards from below 1 ohm to ½ and then ¼ ohm, we're getting ever closer to that 8 ohm minimum. It just doesn't buy you anything, because you can't get below 8. So if you increase the amplifier's damping factor beyond 10, the actual damping on the speaker remains for all intents and purposes unchanged. Whether you have a damping factor of 1000 or 100,000, the speaker really doesn't know the difference. Stereophile: Then why is it that amplifiers with very high damping factor usually give the tightest bass? De Paravicini: The reason amplifiers sound apparently tighter or looser is not their damping factor but the amount and the quality of their feedback and their low-frequency stability under dynamic conditions. The bandwidth, the frequency response, the way it clips, the way it recovers from clipping are all problems that are really of great concern. They are all signatures of the amp's sound characteristics. The ideal amplifier should recover from an overload infinitely fast and not have any subsonic misbehavior. What I am trying to do is to come as close to that as possible in a transformer-output tube amplifier. That is why my amplifiers may sound as if the bass is thin—simply because there isn't this overhang. Most tube amplifiers cannot deliver current. They have a rated power into one rated impedance and the minute the impedance deviates significantly on either side of that, their power output goes to pot. I designed the 509 so it would still maintain its rated power down to 3 ohms. It has a peak current capacity —something I don't publish in the specs but that should be mentioned—of 12 amps. That is one of the reasons for the exceptional tightness of the bass. It can keep the speaker under control, and that's why a cheap 10W receiver will often bottom its woofers. The amplifier loses control totally, and you end up with a damping factor of less than 1, momentarily. From a superficially high figure it disappears, then the speaker lets go and it goes back, crash! -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 210.242.76.224 (臺灣) ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Audiophile/M.1595814550.A.795.html

07/27 09:55, 4年前 , 1F
推....因為ID正確?
07/27 09:55, 1F

07/27 10:27, 4年前 , 2F
推好文
07/27 10:27, 2F

07/27 11:11, 4年前 , 3F
id正確XDD
07/27 11:11, 3F

07/27 11:39, 4年前 , 4F
隨手筆記短心得:
07/27 11:39, 4F

07/27 11:39, 4年前 , 5F
1. Benchmark 有特別解釋DF的文章,推薦一讀。 兩篇都
07/27 11:39, 5F

07/27 11:39, 4年前 , 6F
主張1000、10000之類的DF意義不大。
07/27 11:39, 6F

07/27 11:39, 4年前 , 7F
2. 低頻和(負)回授的品質有關,和頻寬(~=瞬態)有關,
07/27 11:39, 7F

07/27 11:39, 4年前 , 8F
和THD vs. Power的表現有關... (os: 負回授反對派站出
07/27 11:39, 8F

07/27 11:39, 4年前 , 9F
來!)
07/27 11:39, 9F

07/27 11:39, 4年前 , 10F
3. 我家的擴大機有時候聽起來低頻比較薄(lol)(os: 所以
07/27 11:39, 10F

07/27 11:39, 4年前 , 11F
說DF 20太低啊...)
07/27 11:39, 11F

07/27 11:39, 4年前 , 12F
4. 瞬間電流輸出能力很重要 (偷嘴小功率後級www)
07/27 11:39, 12F

07/27 11:39, 4年前 , 13F
5. 其實這篇主要在說用DF評價機器太簡化(這是對的,正
07/27 11:39, 13F

07/27 11:39, 4年前 , 14F
確來說要看output impedence/power vs. frequency)
07/27 11:39, 14F

07/27 11:47, 4年前 , 15F
推本文與樓上
07/27 11:47, 15F

07/27 12:16, 4年前 , 16F
以我聽/使用過的後級來說 509的低頻表現跟大電流晶體機很像
07/27 12:16, 16F

07/27 12:18, 4年前 , 17F
家裡以前用的Adcom GFA555跟Bryston 8BST都贏不了他
07/27 12:18, 17F

07/27 12:20, 4年前 , 18F
這文前面也有提到feedback跟TIM 有興趣的可以看看
07/27 12:20, 18F

07/27 12:49, 4年前 , 19F
OPT 管機常常跳脫一些狀況 Q_Qb
07/27 12:49, 19F

07/27 13:41, 4年前 , 20F
我之前聽的 EAR 509 倒是控制不好 JBL 4343
07/27 13:41, 20F

07/27 13:42, 4年前 , 21F
瞬間電流能力跟線路的反應速度跟電源供應關係很大
07/27 13:42, 21F

07/27 13:42, 4年前 , 22F
DF根本只要100就夠用了 超過 400 根本沒意義
07/27 13:42, 22F

07/27 13:43, 4年前 , 23F
wilson audio 甚至在他的喇叭上面直接寫著 DF 100~400
07/27 13:43, 23F

07/27 13:44, 4年前 , 24F
把 DF 拉高很簡單,但會劣化音質。但提升電供很貴,但是
07/27 13:44, 24F

07/27 13:45, 4年前 , 25F
幾乎沒啥副作用
07/27 13:45, 25F

07/27 13:49, 4年前 , 26F
所以我講了 實聽最準 廠商會吹牛或會說實話 也是很正常
07/27 13:49, 26F
文章代碼(AID): #1V7ZAMUL (Audiophile)
文章代碼(AID): #1V7ZAMUL (Audiophile)