[情報] AMD Zen2筆電在負載10秒後才全速運行已刪文

看板PC_Shopping (個人電腦購買)作者hcwang1126 (王小胖)時間4年前 (2020/11/27 11:30)推噓5(5推 0噓 3→)

留言8則, 8人參與討論串1/1

原文標題和連結: AMD laptops have a hidden 10-second performance delay. Here’s why AMD's flagship Zen 2 laptop CPUs save power by delaying their full performance. https://reurl.cc/bR854v AMD筆記型電腦具有10秒的隱藏性能延遲(不插電下)。這裡是為什麼 AMD的旗艦Zen 2筆記本電腦CPU通過延遲其完整效能來節省功耗。 In an embargoed presentation Friday morning, Intel Chief Performance Strategist Ryan Shrout walked a group of tech journalists through a presentation aimed at taking AMD's Zen 2 (Ryzen 4000 series) laptop CPUs down a peg. 在星期五上午的受限制的演講(embargoed presentation, 消息要等條件到才能發布)中，英特爾首席性能戰略家瑞安·斯勞特（Ryan Shrout）帶領一群技術記者進行了一場演講，目的在殺AMD的Zen 2（Ryzen 4000系列）筆記型電腦CPU銳氣。 Intel's newest laptop CPU design, Tiger Lake, is a genuinely compelling release—but it comes on the heels of some crushing upsets in that space, leaving Intel looking for an angle to prevent hemorrhaging market share to its rival. Early Tiger Lake systems performed incredibly well—but they were configured for a 28W cTDP, instead of the far more common 15W TDP seen in production laptop systems—and reviewers were barred from testing battery life. 英特爾最新的筆記型電腦CPU設計Tiger Lake是一個真正引人注目的版本，但緊隨該領域的一些慘敗之後，英特爾尋找了一個角度來防止競爭對手流失市場份額。早期的Tiger Lake系統的性能令人難以置信的好，但配置為28W cTDP，而不是生產筆記型電腦系統中常見的15W TDP，並且還無法測試電池壽命。 This left reviewers like yours truly comparing Intel's i7-1185G7 at 28W cTDP to AMD Ryzen 7 systems at half the power consumption—and although Tiger Lake did come out generally on top, the power discrepancy kept it from being a conclusive or crushing blow to AMD's increasing market share with the OEM vendors who are actually buying laptop CPUs in the first place. 像您這樣的評論者真正地將Intel i7-1185G7(28W cTDP)與AMD Ryzen 7系統(一半功耗)進行比較:儘管Tiger Lake確實名列前茅，但功耗差異仍使其無法對AMD的處理器產生決定性或沉重的打擊。購買筆記型電腦CPU的OEM供應商不斷增加。 Enter the battery Intel's original Tiger Lake launch presentations sought to draw attention to on-battery versus off-battery discrepancies in AMD's performance, but those attempts mostly went unheard. Shrout's presentation Friday was an attempt to tell that story again, this time with enough additional information to get people fired up. 英特爾最初在Tiger Lake的發布會上試圖吸引人們注意AMD性能方面的差異,在插電和不插電的情況下，但是這些嘗試大多數都不被聽見。Shrout在周五的演講中試圖再次講這個故事，這次有足夠的其他情報引起人們的注意。 We can see this discrepancy between on-battery and off-battery performance easily in the PCMark 10 Applications benchmark and also in many of Intel's RUGs—scripted workloads based around production applications, which the company calls "Realistic Usage Guides." However, the same discrepancy between on- and off-battery performance isn't visible in more commonly used industry benchmarks, such as Cinebench, PassMark, or Geekbench. 我們可以輕鬆地在PCMark 10基準測試中以及在許多英特爾的RUGs（基於生產應用程式的腳本化工作負載）中看到插電和不插電性能之間的差異，該公司將其稱為“實際使用指南 ”。但是，在更常用的行業標準（例如Cinebench，PassMark或Geekbench）中，看不到插電和不插電之間的性能差異。 Intel's engineering team displays the reason why we don't see the discrepancy in Cinebench in the last image of the gallery above—in Intel's testing, the Ryzen 4000 CPUs didn't ramp up power and voltage to their maximum state until somewhere between eight and 11 seconds after heavy-duty workloads began. 英特爾的工程團隊展示原因:為什麼我們沒有在Cinebench裡看到以上Intel圖表裡的差異英特爾的測試的最後一個圖表中的, Ryzen 4000的CPU沒有陡升的功率和電壓，直到繁重的工作負荷開始後8-11秒。 Independent confirmation We were able to confirm Intel's findings over the weekend, working with an Acer Swift 3 SF314-42 laptop (with a Ryzen 7 4700u CPU) and an MSI Prestige 14 Evo laptop (with a Core i7-1185G7). In the charts above, we repeatedly compress small chunks of the Linux 5.3 kernel source and graph throughput over time on each CPU. 我們能夠在周末使用Intel Acer Swift 3 SF314-42筆記型電腦（配備Ryzen 7 4700u CPU ）和MSI Prestige 14 Evo筆記本電腦（配備Core i7-1185G7）來證實Intel的發現。在上面的圖表中，我們反复壓縮Linux 5.3 kernal source code的小部分，並繪製每個CPU 隨時間變化的吞吐量。 The 4-core/8-thread i7-1185G7 easily outperforms the 8-core/8-thread Ryzen 7 4700u in both single and quad-thread workloads, even after the Ryzen 7 4700u belatedly jumps to its full performance around the 12-second mark. In the unlimited workload, where the Ryzen 7 is allowed to flex its full octa-core muscle, things are much closer—and the 4700u even ekes out a narrow win in the last four seconds. 4c8t i7-1185G7在單線程和四線程工作負載中均輕鬆勝過8c/8t Ryzen 7 4700u ，即使Ryzen 7 4700u在大約12秒的時間裡躍升至其全部性能。在無限的工作量下， Ryzen 7可以發揮其八核的全部功能，戰況變得更加接近，而4700u甚至在最後四秒贏得了一場小勝利。 There are a few things we need to point out here, though. First and most obviously—Intel is 100-percent correct in its claims that AMD's Zen 2 laptop CPUs delay ramping power and voltage up to their maximum states. This causes a sharp corresponding and decreased performance during those first few seconds. 不過，在這裡我們需要指出一些事情。首先也是最明顯的一點-英特爾聲稱AMD的Zen 2筆記型電腦CPU將電源和電壓的上升延遲到其最大狀態的說法是100％正確的。在最初的幾秒鐘內，這會導致劇烈的對應功能降低。 We reached out to AMD representatives for comment on this design decision. Although AMD representatives asked further questions about our observations, we have not yet received a response for the record at press time. 我們與AMD代表聯繫，以徵求對此設計的意見。儘管AMD對我們的觀察結果提出了進一步的問題，但截至發稿時，我們尚未收到答复的紀錄。 The devil is in the details—so is the heat But Intel is still playing games with its own power consumption. In the above screenshot, we can see the MSI Prestige Evo 14 with Core i7-1185G7 during a Cinebench R23 run. We haven't had this laptop for long enough to fully review it—and particularly, to review its battery life, which we've been very curious about since being forbidden to test that stat in two earlier i7-1185G7 systems. 但是英特爾仍在以自己的功耗設定玩遊戲。在上面的螢幕截圖中，我們可以在 Cinebench R23運行期間看到帶有Core i7-1185G7的MSI Prestige Evo 14。我們還沒有足夠長的時間來全面檢查這款筆記型電腦，尤其是查看它的電池壽命，自從被禁止在兩個早期的i7-1185G7系統中測試該數據以來，我們一直對此感到非常好奇。 But we can see that—rather than dial the i7-1185G7's cTDP down to something approximating the typical Ryzen 7 4000 cTDP of 15W, as widely expected—MSI has in this laptop chosen to dial it up even further than what we saw in earlier prototypes. This production i7-1185G7 system has a variable PL1 that hits as high as 36W during the course of a Cinebench R23 run—in addition to its PL2 of 51W, which is unchanged from the prototypes. 但是我們可以看到，與其將i7-1185G7的cTDP降低到接近Ryzen 7 4000 15 cTDP那樣，不如說，MSI在這台筆記型電腦中選擇了將其提升到比我們在早期原型中看到的還要高的地方。該生產的i7-1185G7系統具有可變的PL1，在Cinebench R23運行期間達到了36W的功率-而51W的PL2與原型機相同。 During this Cinebench R23 run, the laptop spent its first 10 to 15 seconds running at the full PL2 power limit of 51W, with temperatures up to a blistering 98°C. After that initial extremely high-performance power and heat generating burst, the CPU dropped down to sustain an average power consumption of 34W. By contrast, an 8 core/16 thread Ryzen 7 Pro 4750U—at cTDP upward of 25W—consumed an average of 27.9W, with a high of 29.9W. 在Cinebench R23的運行過程中，筆記型電腦在PL2的最大功率極限為51W的條件下運行了最初的10到15秒，溫度高達98°C。在最初的極高性能功率和發熱爆發之後，CPU下降以維持平均34W的功耗。相比之下，8c/16t Ryzen 7 Pro 4750U（在cTDP時為25W以上）平均消耗27.9W，最高消耗29.9W。 While we're veering away from the CPUs themselves and into laptop-design territory, it's perhaps worth noting that system-fan activity was also significantly different between the MSI Prestige 14 Evo—which reached nearly gaming-laptop levels of fan noise almost immediately—and the HP EliteBook, which took more than a minute to ramp its fans up to max and remained much quieter than the MSI throughout the run. 儘管我們正在遠離CPU本身而進入筆記本電腦設計領域，但值得注意的是，在MSI Prestige 14 Evo之間，系統風扇的活動也有顯著差異-幾乎立即達到了電競筆記型電腦的風扇噪音水平–而HP EliteBook，它花了超過一分鐘的時間才將其風扇提升到最大，並且在整個運行過程中仍比MSI安靜得多。 The battle continues While Intel didn't specifically tell us what conclusions we should draw from the performance delay in Zen 2 laptop CPUs versus the instant-on performance from Tiger Lake, the company was clearly hoping for something in between "AMD is gaming the benchmarks" and "it turns out, Intel was the winner all along." 儘管英特爾沒有具體告訴我們應該從Zen 2筆記型電腦CPU的性能延遲與Tiger Lake的即時性能中得出什麼結論，但該公司顯然希望是“ AMD操弄測試”和“事實證明，英特爾一直是贏家。”之間。 We don't think there are any such cut-and-dried conclusions to draw here. Intel's findings regarding the slow performance ramp of the AMD Zen 2 laptop CPUs is, obviously, correct in the facts—we had no trouble confirming it, and it does explain why many of Intel's preferred benchmarking techniques show larger performance deltas in favor of Team Blue than the more widely used industry benchmarks like Cinebench, PassMark, and so forth. 我們認為這裡沒有得出這樣簡單的結論。英特爾關於AMD Zen 2筆記型電腦CPU的緩慢性能提升的發現顯然是正確的-我們毫不費力地證實了這一點，它確實解釋了為什麼許多英特爾首選的基準測試技術顯示出更大的性能差異，而青睞Team Blue比諸如Cinebench， PassMark等更廣泛使用的行業標準。 But this ignores the greater efficiency of the AMD systems, above and beyond the delayed shift to maximum performance (and battery consumption) states in the CPU. When we run Cinebench R23 for five full minutes, a Ryzen 7 Pro 4750u system renders more scenes than the Intel i7-1185G7, and it does so with less total power consumed. There's no clever trick to explain that away. 但這忽略了AMD系統的更高效率，除了CPU延遲轉移到最大性能（和電池消耗）狀態的延遲之外。當我們在Cinebench R23上運行整整五分鐘時，Ryzen 7 Pro 4750u系統比Intel i7-1185G7渲染的場景更多，並且消耗的總功率更少。沒有巧妙的技巧可以解釋這一點。 We also believe there's a tuning argument to be made on both sides. Intel's more rapid shift to the highest performance state carries some real-world benefits with it, but we're not certain they're as compelling as the charts make them seem. In practical terms, we've spent quite some time now with both Zen 2 and Tiger Lake laptops—and the Tiger Lake systems don't really feel faster in terms of a seat-of-the-pants subjective experience. This argues strongly that there frequently isn't much point in ramping up CPU power profiles that quickly—if the human piloting the system doesn't notice the latency improvement, it's probably better to conserve the battery instead. 我們也相信雙方都需要進行調整。英特爾向更高性能狀態的更快轉變帶來了一些現實世界的好處，但我們不確定它們是否像圖表所示那樣引人注目。實際上，我們在Zen 2和 Tiger Lake筆記本電腦上已經花費了相當長的時間，而自我主觀(seat-of-the-pants)體驗而言，Tiger Lake系統並沒有真正感覺到更快。這有力地證明了快速提升CPU功耗配置文件通常沒有多大意義-如果人工駕駛系統沒有註意到延遲的改善，則最好節省電池。心得: 就是在講AMD不插電性能會有10秒CD 一種撐10秒才要放大絕的概念(工程師是動漫宅? 另一點比較微妙的是通常都是先上後下保持平穩的調整比較少見 i的逆向工程還蠻強的幫對手找bug... i皇, 插不插(電? 發情報文請注意 *10. 情報文使用媒體新聞時，需以過半或全文呈現，並必須附上來源連結。若刪改文意與爭議標題導致閱讀者認知錯誤，依板主主觀判斷，得水桶七日處分。多篇違反者依*11與2-4-7，依情節基本水桶一百八十日至一年處分。 *11. 情報文稱呼台灣時，請以中華民國或台灣為限。超過三篇違反者依2-2-4，劣文換算水桶一百八十日處分。錯板或錯誤分類的文章將會遭到刪除 2017/07/01正式處罰。菜單文與情報文，禁止任何估價系統連結與擷圖、包含文字估價單號碼。禁止文內有任何估價系統的連結，估價系統的估價單號與估價系統網址的數字。視為估價單單號。與相關包含手寫、excel、估價系統的擷圖連結。請勿張貼包含yahoo、pchome、udn、momo、autobuy、燦坤、三井、順發、良興等國內網路通路連結。請以文字敘述。以上只限制於本板相關物品，有爭議者由板務認定。 (參閱板規1-2-3、1-3-9) 違反者:刪文、水桶十日。 ------------------------開菜單請用[菜單] 不是用[請益]-------------------- ◎非消費相關問題、純故障排除與硬體性能論文請至--hardware 硬體板 ◎顯示卡討論請至--------------------------------VideoCard 顯示卡板 ◎光碟機、燒錄機、燒錄片討論請至----------------CD-R 燒錄板 ◎硬碟機、儲存裝置請至--------------------------Storage_Zone 硬碟板 ◎螢幕討論請至----------------------------------LCD 螢幕板 ◎二手電腦設備買賣請至--------------------------HardwareSale 二手硬體板 ◎筆記型電腦問題請至----------------------------notebook 筆電板 ◎筆記型電腦消費相關請至------------------------nb-shopping 筆電瞎拼板 ◎滑鼠鍵盤相關請至------------------------------Key_Mou_Pad 鍵鼠版 ◎電視卡、電視盒相關請至------------------------TVCard 電視卡板 ◎印表機、掃描器、事務機------------------------Printer_scan 週邊設備板 ◎電腦喇叭、音響設備----------------------------Audiophile 音響喇叭討論板－－－－－－－－－－－－－－以上可用 Ctrl+Y刪除－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－ꄊ -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 60.250.179.98 (臺灣) ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1606447846.A.396.html